Comments for Natural Family Planning International http://nfpandmore.org/wordpress John and Sheila Kippley Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:31:26 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 Comment on Can Bishops Require Natural Family Planning Instruction? by Martha Sears http://nfpandmore.org/wordpress/?p=1059&cpage=1#comment-1076 Martha Sears Fri, 30 Jul 2010 00:31:26 +0000 http://nfpandmore.org/wordpress/?p=1059#comment-1076 John, I have a question about what you are saying when the priest would give the couple a choice of place for the marriage: either in the church building, or in the rectory. Do you mean they can have the church building only if they attend the required class? And the rectory otherwise? And that would basically "force" them to the class b/c they'd obviously want the church wedding? Or, by "church building" do you mean in the church but somewhere other than the actual nave/sanctuary? I guess that's my evangelical background coming out, b/c they have church buildings with all sorts of spaces/purposes. So, if that's the meaning, you are saying that the priest can in effect "blackmail" the couple into the class if they want a Catholic wedding in the "church building". Do you know any priests who have done that? I would hope a lot have! Thanks, Martha JOHN: I wouldn't call it blackmail which involves someone paying or doing something to keep hidden something evil or at least shameful. In this case I suggest that the priest can use leverage to help the couple understand the seriousness of their choice to refuse to attend a course on natural family planning, a course that could be life-changing for the better if it's the right kind of course. The choice I suggested would be between a normal in-church wedding or a small private ceremony in a room in the parish rectory, probably the same room where he and the engaged couple have had their meetings, but not another room in the church or in the gym. Lastly, I don't know of any priests who have done this. Very few are making a complete NFP course a normally required part of marriage preparation. John,
I have a question about what you are saying when the priest would give the couple a choice of place for the marriage: either in the church building, or in the rectory. Do you mean they can have the church building only if they attend the required class? And the rectory otherwise? And that would basically “force” them to the class b/c they’d obviously want the church wedding? Or, by “church building” do you mean in the church but somewhere other than the actual nave/sanctuary? I guess that’s my evangelical background coming out, b/c they have church buildings with all sorts of spaces/purposes. So, if that’s the meaning, you are saying that the priest can in effect “blackmail” the couple into the class if they want a Catholic wedding in the “church building”. Do you know any priests who have done that? I would hope a lot have!
Thanks,
Martha
JOHN: I wouldn’t call it blackmail which involves someone paying or doing something to keep hidden something evil or at least shameful. In this case I suggest that the priest can use leverage to help the couple understand the seriousness of their choice to refuse to attend a course on natural family planning, a course that could be life-changing for the better if it’s the right kind of course. The choice I suggested would be between a normal in-church wedding or a small private ceremony in a room in the parish rectory, probably the same room where he and the engaged couple have had their meetings, but not another room in the church or in the gym. Lastly, I don’t know of any priests who have done this. Very few are making a complete NFP course a normally required part of marriage preparation.

]]> Comment on Natural Family Planning Course Needs to be Complete. by Beth http://nfpandmore.org/wordpress/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-1047 Beth Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:40:28 +0000 http://nfpandmore.org/wordpress/?p=1015#comment-1047 Thank you so much for offering your book online and for all your research. We took the NFP classes before we were married, had some success after marriage prior to having our first child and then after, really struggled with NFP. We have 5 children in 5 years even while using ecological breastfeeding (except the nap). We co-slept and breastfed on demand. I wish I read this earlier other than the fact that we might have not been blessed with our children if I had. This had the clearest information on NFP that I have read. I made it to a first birthday party without being pregnant for the first time. I tried to take a nap when possible, used extended breastfeeding and added the cervix recommendations (which are the clearest in your book). My fertility didn't come back until 10 months this time instead of the usual 2-3 months. The longest I nursed before was 19 months and I am still nursing my 1 and almost 2 1/2 year old this time. We will be making a donation soon even though we can't afford much and I have recommended this site to tons of people. My sister in law contacted you recently and was very grateful also. She had a septated uterus. I was tempted to give up because we just couldn't afford any more kids and were really struggling homeschooling and having so many kids so close together so I really appreciate your help! Thanks and God Bless, Beth Johnston P.S. I will add that we must be very fertile because our last child was conceived 4 days before my peak day. JOHN: First, we are grateful for Beth's comment. It illustrates three things we teach. 1) The daily nap is an important part of the Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding. 2) The cervix sign can be very helpful. Mothers have been telling us this since the late 1960s. 3) If mucus was present on Peak Day minus 4, that day would be considered a day of normal fertility. In the presence of mucus, especially the more-fertile type, sperm can live up to five days. Further, ovulation can occur on Peak Day minus 1, Peak Day minus 2, and very rarely even on Peak Day minus 3, according to the published research. For up-to-date information and research on The Seven Standards, we encourage our readers to read <em>The Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding: The Frequency Factor.</em> Thank you so much for offering your book online and for all your research. We took the NFP classes before we were married, had some success after marriage prior to having our first child and then after, really struggled with NFP. We have 5 children in 5 years even while using ecological breastfeeding (except the nap). We co-slept and breastfed on demand. I wish I read this earlier other than the fact that we might have not been blessed with our children if I had. This had the clearest information on NFP that I have read. I made it to a first birthday party without being pregnant for the first time. I tried to take a nap when possible, used extended breastfeeding and added the cervix recommendations (which are the clearest in your book). My fertility didn’t come back until 10 months this time instead of the usual 2-3 months. The longest I nursed before was 19 months and I am still nursing my 1 and almost 2 1/2 year old this time. We will be making a donation soon even though we can’t afford much and I have recommended this site to tons of people. My sister in law contacted you recently and was very grateful also. She had a septated uterus. I was tempted to give up because we just couldn’t afford any more kids and were really struggling homeschooling and having so many kids so close together so I really appreciate your help!

Thanks and God Bless,

Beth Johnston

P.S. I will add that we must be very fertile because our last child was conceived 4 days before my peak day.
JOHN: First, we are grateful for Beth’s comment. It illustrates three things we teach. 1) The daily nap is an important part of the Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding. 2) The cervix sign can be very helpful. Mothers have been telling us this since the late 1960s. 3) If mucus was present on Peak Day minus 4, that day would be considered a day of normal fertility. In the presence of mucus, especially the more-fertile type, sperm can live up to five days. Further, ovulation can occur on Peak Day minus 1, Peak Day minus 2, and very rarely even on Peak Day minus 3, according to the published research. For up-to-date information and research on The Seven Standards, we encourage our readers to read The Seven Standards of Ecological Breastfeeding: The Frequency Factor.

]]> Comment on Natural Family Planning Course Needs to be Complete. by ann http://nfpandmore.org/wordpress/?p=1015&cpage=1#comment-1044 ann Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:03:17 +0000 http://nfpandmore.org/wordpress/?p=1015#comment-1044 Being a Registered Nurse, nfp-user, and nfp instructor, it seems unethical to me that some nfp teachers not only exclude some of this information, they discourage it or downplay it - even though this is all backed by irrefutable scientific research. I am speaking here mainly about the temperature/cervix signs plus the ecological breastfeeding. It is imperative to me that all nfp programs promote and teach this complete approach. This will not only give more credibility to nfp as a lifestyle, it gives couples choices, rather than only giving them the instructor's preference. I am not saying that I am against a couple using one sign only, or choosing not to nurse their baby, but it is the couple's decision when to use which sign or when to ecologically breastfeed. They know themselves the best and cannot make these choices if they do not have a complete picture of how broad nfp is. This is a constant source of irritation to me, a frustration, an injustice, because the medical community revolves around informed consent, patient education and decision participation. A more complete treatment of nfp in presentations will attract more people to it. Even the Holy Father (John Paul II) said that different couples have different needs. Wasn't he a wise man? Being a Registered Nurse, nfp-user, and nfp instructor, it seems unethical to me that some nfp teachers not only exclude some of this information, they discourage it or downplay it – even though this is all backed by irrefutable scientific research. I am speaking here mainly about the temperature/cervix signs plus the ecological breastfeeding.
It is imperative to me that all nfp programs promote and teach this complete approach. This will not only give more credibility to nfp as a lifestyle, it gives couples choices, rather than only giving them the instructor’s preference.
I am not saying that I am against a couple using one sign only, or choosing not to nurse their baby, but it is the couple’s decision when to use which sign or when to ecologically breastfeed. They know themselves the best and cannot make these choices if they do not have a complete picture of how broad nfp is.
This is a constant source of irritation to me, a frustration, an injustice, because the medical community revolves around informed consent, patient education and decision participation. A more complete treatment of nfp in presentations will attract more people to it. Even the Holy Father (John Paul II) said that different couples have different needs. Wasn’t he a wise man?

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